Battling Disinformation
Jeanne Moore of WSI, met Ira Hyman, Professor of Psychology at Western Washington University, at a Stand up for Science event where he spoke about the dangers of disinformation. Following is an edited version of their conversation:
by Jeanne Moore
WSI: One of the most infuriating things about the Trump administration is that they blatantly lie and get away with it. In your training as a psychologist, why do you think so many people are prone to believing disinformation?
Ira: Yeah, that's a complex question. Most of these disinformation campaigns are tied to our identities. When people hear information, they link it to their belief system and what’s important to them. The goal isn't always to get you to buy all the disinformation, but it’s to get you to doubt the truth. Also, news media are doing less fact-checking and routinely engaging in “both sides” journalism. They keep inviting back people who they know lie. It's tied to a narrative, it's tied to your identity, it’s repeated often, and it's coming from people thought to be reliable. There's also an underlying racism and bigotry attached to many of these disinformation campaigns.
WSI: During your presentation, you said one of the problems with the “Bullshit Campaign”, is that it's sticky. As soon as you try to contradict a lie, another one pops up--like ‘whack-a-mole’. Given all of that, what do you think is the best way to deal with disinformation?
Ira: You're in a situation where people are intentionally spreading lies. Disinformation usually stems from people who want more money and more power. They know that they're lying, and they have a vested interest in that lying. Oil and gas companies have a big interest in denying climate change. Some alternative medicine folks who sell supplements have a big interest in downplaying standard medical information so they can sell their stuff. Politicians have a vested interest in getting you to adopt their view of the world, keeping you angry, and pointing out targets. Even if the stuff that they claim, like “Portland is burning down,” is clearly false, the lies create a narrative that keeps them in power and allows them to use police powers in harmful ways.
Given this horrific situation where people are motivated to tell lies, then other people adopt it because it fits with their identity, how do you break through this? How do you win a disinformation war? Because right now, we're losing. We're not addressing climate change. People are not getting vaccinated. We're not going to be tracking pandemics. We are sending armed forces into our cities because of lies. We're arresting brown people for just existing. There's so much violence being done through these disinformation campaigns. So how do you win the disinformation war? Yeah…. I’m not sure.
WSI: Oh no! You had such a great build-up; I was waiting for your answer with bated breath! Darn it! Though, there is one thing that gives me a glimmer of hope--the inflatable animals in Portland! They’ve been great. They changed the narrative.
Ira: Yeah, the frogs of Portland are wonderful. Unicorns are great. Chicken Man—I love the dude. Comedy can be your friend, because ridiculing is one of the best things you can do to authoritarians. They think they're serious. They want and like to be treated seriously, but if you laugh at them, it's much more dismissive than arguing with them. It also puts a mirror on them. You point out the absurdity by highlighting the absurdity.
WSI: I think a lot of disinformation spreads because it's entertaining. Lies rile folks up. And maybe that’s one reason why the inflatable animals have worked in Portland--because they are entertaining. How do we get accurate information out there, that would be engaging and ‘stickier’?
Ira: Yeah, when I talk about disinformation, I always start by saying the true thing first. Vaccines are safe and effective. Human actions are leading to climate change and global warming. Portland is not burning down. But there are other things that we need to emphasize, as well. For example, most people in this country are descended from those who were, at one time, immigrants themselves. Most people remember that vaccines are a pretty good thing, and not getting sick is a good thing. Most people in this country are aware that climate change is happening, and they want to see their government do something about it.
We want to remind people of the truth while connecting it to their identities and tying it to a better narrative, like being kind to people and the planet. And the news media need to stop inviting repeat spreaders of false information back onto their programs.
WSI: Yeah, the problem is big media is being all bought out by conservative, MAGA-friendly groups.
Ira: That’s true. We need to support independent journalism, like NPR, that is not owned by the oligarchs who are creating and telling stories to maintain their power. The extreme Right is not just loud, it's also being promoted by the media and the Government, and because they are so loud, people may not realize the extreme Right is the minority.
Scientists need to get out there and remind people what the truth is by saying, “Vaccines are safe and effective--and what's more, they have the added benefit of lowering your risk of dementia!” We need to focus primarily on the benefits. These strategies apply to the issue of climate change, as well.
WSI: We need more scientists like you who can speak in these real-life ways that impact people. Keep the message simple and short, “Vaccines are safe and effective and lower your risk of dementia.” I think that’s a message most people can get on board with. Any last thoughts?
Ira: Despite all these challenges, I am still optimistic about the future.
This probably reflects the fact that I'm a college professor and I hang out with these young people – and they're smart, hardworking and thoughtful, and they care about the world, and they care about each other. In the 30 years I’ve been doing this job, my students have made me a better person. I want to make a better world for my students and for my sons. I want to see that happen, and I still think it can happen. There’s a lot of good in the world, and a lot of people who are doing good work. That’s what keeps me optimistic.
